Monday, November 21, 2005

Feminism, come again....

Was more than disappointed to return from a break and discover half a dozen of Indian bloggers debating feminism. Brought up in my generation, feminism is like one of those battles you learn about in the history class. At the most, you can only understand but you shall never be able to relate to it either in spirit or in sense. Yet to see feminism debated in Indian blogosphere with as much blind fervour as it was done with just reaffirmed my beliefs about the poor standards of observational perspectives amongst Indian writers.
Not that its something dear or of a major concern, but since we are already here, I’m just putting up my final frame on feminism.

Although it is popularly perceived otherwise, feminism, say for instance like socialism or hedonism is not a fundamental ideology.In other words feminism can’t survive on its own and hence it can’t be imposed on populations. And moreover feminism is not universal, it moulds into connotations of its own. It is, at it’s best, circumstantial. So one activist might be fighting to wear a garment of her choice while elsewhere another might be suing a colleague for inappropriateness on the same grounds of feminism. To suggest that both of them are same or even different forms of the same is preposterous.

So what then is the foundation of feminism?
The basic furniture of feminism has historically entailed a motivation and rightly so, to fight for equal rights of women and against discrimination based on gender. Since any such collective motivation invariably leads to a mass activity, it naturally becomes a movement- of course notwithstanding the fringe it might eventually amount to. And all movements have a goal, therefore an end.
And so did feminism- when erstwhile male dominated society abolished the apparent inequality between men and women. That meant, by statute, the state promised equal rights and equal freedom irrespective of the gender. Unfortunately this has not been applicable in some fundamental cultures, but it has been achieved in the open societies to such an extent that folks of my generation, including women (as much as I hate to point out) find it quite dismaying to be subjected repeatedly to the often mistaken and convenient notions of feminism.

One of such commonest cart of convenience in present days is of identifying empowerment for feminism selectively. Although it is imaginable as a distant offshoot of, in principle, empowerment is hardly feminism. In fact, empowerment is contradictory to the very values (not ideals) of feminism, because it encourages another form of discrimination in a graded manner by claiming victimhood. If having equal number of women as men on a panel is a supposed credit to feminism so it must be as well to have equal number of Nobel prizes reserved for women. All one needs to do is exercise a bit of imagination. The women, as always, would be suddenly worth it.

Another unbecoming surprise was to find out about this fancy to exchange labels of ‘male feminist’, ‘female feminist’ etc. And it’s not all that hard to hear ‘gay feminist’, ‘metro- sexual feminist’ and even perhaps ‘anti-male feminist’ not very far down the road. Sounds colourful, but lacks meaning.I mean what’s this inscrutable disposition? The very sound of ‘male feminist’ is quite strange because it carries a connotation of predator sympathising the prey. The irony, that makes it more tastier is that no one has a clue who is who?
We live in a post-modern world, which is essentially individualistic. And that is as simple as one can try to put it. So wouldn’t it make more sense to identify oneself as an individual than to collect a dozen of labels for an identity? And moreover when did we start defining ourselves in tokens of negative definitions* esp. like that of feminism. Just because you enjoy cooking or relate to women at large as a person it doesn’t make you a male feminist. And since one can’t empathise with women as well can’t identify with the ‘male feminist’ bunch one must then be ‘anti-male feminist’? But hang on! Wasn’t he the chauvinist a while back? Ah! joys of reinventing? As if anyone cared? And it is perhaps the reason why even though Kill Bill is perhaps the most blatant feminist movie of our days (in a traditional sense), it is only marked as an action thriller.


Just a word about chavumism, since it has sneaked in.Well, Chauvinism is a metaphor for misconceptions of its own. Perhaps one relevant point in the context is how some social manifestations of chauvinism, is taken as being anti-feminist(for whatever it implies). Both in aesthetic and metaphoric sense, 'eyeing the honey' is purely, for the lack of a better word, biological. If at all it is anything , it is most definitely not objectification and poisoning with testosterone. And I mean only ‘eyeing the honey’ as chauvinism and not eve-teasing which is, illegal, and pathological.

To conclude, the very need to reuse the visage of feminism in the forms of second and third waves is a glowing evidence for the fact that feminism is dead and done with, unless one wants to pass it for something else unrelated- means of exploitation and a sense of college nostalgia.
Feminism for all it's virtues has become, to put it mildly, a tool of convenience, an instant headache of escape! To speak of it as something greater is perhaps a wishful ideal and we all know about such ideals.In these times, it is a seismic defeat even indulge in thoughts of supposed feminism; a debate to resuscitate the buried is nothing but an exercise in futility.

The future is the past passing by the minute. Unless one wants otherwise.

But what to I know? I hang out with female pigs!

Long live Queen Victoria.
But of course six feet under.


*Definition built on negation- like atheist: I dont believe in God.

13 comments:

bharath said...

One of the best articulated and a very reasonable opinion. :-)

The women, as always, would be suddenly worth it. struck a chord with me.

yeah! if men (also the small minority of women who discriminate women) don't realise that women are just as good if not (far) better, they will make the situation worse and hence more pressing for a change than now. :-)

Sunil said...

Thanks for reading.

Anonymous said...

"Although it is popularly perceived otherwise, feminism, say for instance like socialism or hedonism is not a fundamental ideology.In other words feminism can’t survive on its own and hence it can’t be imposed on populations. And moreover feminism is not universal, it moulds into connotations of its own. It is, at it’s best, circumstantial"


I don't think that you understand the whole concept of feminism..
I can agree that it is circumstancial..but at the same time, We need feminism to give justice to rape victims, female infanticide and any other form of social harrassment towards women.
I guess your are seeing feminism as a crime against chavinism..but it's not just that, there is more mettle to it than what you see..anyways
since you hang around with female pigs less said the better.

Sunil said...

Hey Anon,
Thanks for the comment.But frankly, I dont know what to make of it.Im at loss to follow whatever you wanted to say.
On one hand you agree that feminism is circumstancial and on the other say its based on your needs.
If the valency of your views are , as you have yourself said based on 'needs' , Im afraid there is no room for rational discussion.As for me,such a viewpoint doesnt demand any 'understanding' at all. It could be plainly 'figured'.

And whats with the justice and feminism, like how socialism would give 'justice' to capitalism??

Youve got to eloborate on whatever the mettle you seem to have found?
cheers

Anonymous said...

While feminism is to the palette of some who can celebrate it, freedom is a word some cannot understand and comprehende
The mettle I am talking about is not about my needs alsone...wherever you got the Idea about "my needs" you gotta read my posts carefully. I am speaking for teh women everywhere who go througha lot of torture and harrassment in daily lives just because they are women..and you cannot deny the fact that society is such that it teaches men to treat women like commodities...
despite all these realities which are circustancial...I would still uphold feminism and it's success someday.

Anonymous said...

err..I mean I will up hold Feminism...

and I mean it is going to be justified in every walk of life someday..

maybe it will be vedic periods again..where Matriarchy prevailed
:)

If you do not understand my view point you better re read it.

Sunil said...

This is kind of waving at each other from two different planes.
You contend that I don’t understand the values within the feminist movement where as I am questioning the validity of the 'present face' of the erstwhile movement? Values that you have pointed out like liberty, joy of celebration are not specially exclusive to women and demand no prior understanding to be entitled to(as they are rights) and if compromised doesnt have to protested only on the grounds of feminism.
I did not imply need as your need it was need as in a general sense. If the idea is based on convenient malleable needs, then rationalisation accordingly follows. And no debate can ever win against rationalisation.
The crux of the blog was to point out that there is no singular ideology in feminism in its current form. Women discriminated against is one thing and harassed is another which as I ve said is pathological and by statue illegal. It has nothing to do with feminism . Suppose a stray dog(not bitch) chases a woman on street , then would it make the dog against the feminist principles of general liberty ( to walk on the street) and sisterhood?
I wonder what audiences watch soaps like saas - bahu which is nothing but spite malevolence and torture to women by ‘surprise ‘ another Woman ? Hence the pandoras can of Society, matriarchy and such stories are of little relevance here.
You are entitled to uphold whatever you want to, I’ve never contested that. My take was feminism as a sustainable ideology. That is all to it.
Thanks for participating

Anonymous said...

"The very sound of ‘male feminist’ is quite strange because it carries a connotation of predator sympathising the prey. The irony, that makes it more tastier is that no one has a clue who is who?"

no actually it isn't strange at all. if you "exercise a bit of imagination" maybe you can see that among many circles there's an assumption that males don't/won't/can't support or sympathize with the principles of equality associated with so-called feminism.



"We live in a post-modern world, which is essentially individualistic. And that is as simple as one can try to put it. So wouldn’t it make more sense to identify oneself as an individual than to collect a dozen of labels for an identity?"

do you have a coherent point to make? is that supposed to constitute an argument?

We live in X.
X is essentially Y.
Therefore it makes sense to identify oneself as "y".


no that isn't an argument at all. "makes sense" in what way? you've just spun yourself into a useless "i mean GEE WHIZ, what's with all LABELS people!" schtick.

'individualistic' is yet another label, so what's your point? labels actually refer to real things, in case you haven't noticed, even if they only refer to a contrived set of Attitudes. people often FORM and crystallize their own identities (or what they think are their identities) with those sets of attitudes that the labels refer to. that's why the labels serve as shorthand for their identities.


"To speak of it as something greater is perhaps a wishful ideal and we all know about such ideals."

hey, yeah we do know about such ideals. these 'wishful ideals' can and do lead to social mobilization and upheaval. on occasion.



"Another unbecoming surprise was to find out about this fancy to exchange labels of ‘male feminist’, ‘female feminist’ etc. And it’s not all that hard to hear ‘gay feminist’, ‘metro- sexual feminist’ and even perhaps ‘anti-male feminist’ not very far down the road. Sounds colourful, but lacks meaning"

actually it has a lot of meaning, in a practical social sense, as a signifier. people use labels as identity shortcuts to communicate with [superficially] like-minded people. you can call it vacuous but it works in groups, that's why people do it.

"So one activist might be fighting to wear a garment of her choice while elsewhere another might be suing a colleague for inappropriateness on the same grounds of feminism. To suggest that both of them are same or even different forms of the same is preposterous."

is it somehow possible-- do you think-- that the plaintiff's colleague [does 'inappropriate' thing] with impunity in the same way that the enforcers of the social order (in the first case) go about their business of dictating fashion

with impunity? it doesn't take a leap of imagination to see the two actors as

unified in some cause.

has anyone ever been sued for "inappropriateness"? or is that just a delusional

straw-man whipped up in your fervor? and you sue somebody on legal grounds, not

grounds of feminism. the legal grounds in question wouldn't exist in the first

place if there'd never been feminism. "AH GEEZ, NOW WE GOT-- WE GOT

'FEMINISTS' --SNICKER-- SUING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT JUST FOR CHECKIN OUT THEIR T&A. I CALL FOUL!".

maybe if you give a more detailed portrayal of the cases you're thinking about, we can have a rational agreement about how "preposterous" the suggestion of

commonality is.



"And moreover when did we start defining ourselves in tokens of negative

definitions* esp. like that of feminism." /// "*Definition built on negation-

like atheist: I dont believe in God."

who is "we" ? anyway if i had to guess i'd say...... the dawn of

civilization? no, with the advent of language? "mean" = "not nice." pretty

simple stuff.

celibate: doesn't have sex
bachelor: not married
weak: not physically strong
unemployed: not employed. (whoops, did i trick ya, did i?)

i guess you haven't noticed this yet. i'll fill you in. when you have two

exlusive categories, it's convenient to be able to refer to one in terms of the

other. using syntactic negation.


whoa, shit this post is from november 2005? fuck this. bye.

Ekta said...

Well,
Kinda Agree with you!
Am not really one of those die-hard feminist types-in fact its a bit of turn off for me if I see someone coming out too strongly as a feminist for the sake of it!

However the same applies to a chavinist!
But sometimes u just believe in somethign strongly and want to stand by it!...

Gues feminism is a perspective which varies and everyone seems to have their own!

Sunil said...

Anonymous, whoever you are,
I do appreciate the time you have spared, but im afraid I have no inclination to engage in a juvenile why? why not?conversation.
As I have stated already, my perspective was intended to question feminism as an ideology.
I find nothing relevant in your comment to defend it as an ideology except your repeated claptrap based on your pre-formed notions.If you have your take on it as an ideology, I would have been more interested.
I cant humour your perception by spoonfeeding the post modern and related -Delueze, Darrida,Barthes' cognition on individual here.That was not the intent with which the blog was written.
Please lay off any misconceptions about this being an 'arguement',This was just my view I have no wish to change other perspectives.
The only thing that elicits any response is your take on negative definitions and syntactic negation!
In all the examples you have given, both the opposite-states can be defined independently, and that is possible because they are states and not concepts.Concepts cant have negative definitions.

The whole atheist idea is based on a belief that They DONT believe in god.That is huge presupposition to identify oneself as much it says it doesnt have a belief of its own and depends contradicting 'other' belief systems to define itself.Same thing applies to feminism as a concept, hence the despration to redefine it again and again.
To put it more plainly, If I ask your name? you woudnt answer by saying My name is not Mr.Imbecile.
That is what is a negative definition, but dont worry I woudnt bother to ask you.

And one more thing, be mindful of your language here, this is not a school to rear you.

ekta,
Thanks for dropping by, Im glad we concurr. I dont have any experience of identifying in either feminist or chauvinist camp.I think they belonged to a generation earlier.For instance if I was so called chivalrous the response was ' you are nice to me' than labelling me chivalrous.
Somehow people seem to find ways to wallow in their own traps, as you have said, they stand by something because they have to.Indeed.
cheers

Prat said...

hey sunil,
methinks you put forward a rather strong case. got me thinking on a lot of issues.
must say that your style is rather refreshing.

Sunil said...

Hey Prat
Thanks, what is worthwhile than spaking off thoughts?:)
cheers

Sumita said...

Remind me again, why are we taling about feminism?



Sumita